## [# Bob Pisani @ Future Proof: The Power of Community](/sections/conferences/bob-pisani-future-proof-power-community)
# Bob Pisani @ Future Proof: The Power of Community
In a trustless world, getting together face to face may be all that matters.
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[By ETF.com Staff](/contributors/etfcom-staff)
Sep 24, 2025
Edited by: ETF.com Staff
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Dave Nadig sits down with former CNBC-anchor Bob Pisani at the Future Proof conference to discuss trust, community, and the evolution of investing.
**Key Topics:**
- **Trust in an era of AI-slop:** Authentic, in-person connections matter more than ever when "we don't know what's real online anymore"
- **Wall Street's lost community:** From the hundreds of traders on the NYSE floor to Jimmy Page playing Led Zeppelin at the opening bell, Bob shares stories from a vanishing world of real people doing real things.
- **The ETF gambling problem** - Why Bob believes single-stock leveraged ETFs and zero-day options are "degenerate gambling" dressed up as investing.
- **The Bitcoin paradox** - How crypto can be both a get-rich-quick scheme AND a legitimate portfolio diversifier at the same time.
- **Active management's Trust-driven comeback** - Why Tom Lee and Dan Ives have billions in assets: "They speak clearly. People have a sense they can trust what they're saying"
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# Dave Nadig & Bob Pisani Conversation - Full Transcript
## Opening: The Value of In-Person Conferences
**Bob Pisani:** I'm a big believer in real conferences these days, and I'll tell you why. We don't know what's real and not online anymore. There's so much AI fakery. Here, there is a sense of authenticity. Unless you've got a really good robot, you're definitely Dave Nadig.
**Dave Nadig:** I'm definitely here.
**Dave:** All right, I'm here with Bob Pisani. Bob, dear old friend, you've got a great new book out. Talk to me a little bit about some of the stories in your book.
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## Building Communities in Finance
**Bob:** Well, first off, thank you for having me here. I feel like you've come full circle with ETF.com, coming back with them again. Congratulations on that. You're gonna do nothing but great things with that.
And the Future Proof Conference, I'm a veteran here. I've been to every single Future Proof. I come to this conference for a very simple reason. This is about building communities of investors, which is what, the key word is community. It's no longer good enough just to put out a newsletter or to have a TV show. You have to connect with your audience and create a community.
So they've tried to figure out a way here to connect, number one, the RIA community, particularly the young RIA community that's growing, with the old Wall Street people, the old sell-side people you and I know, the JP Morgans and State Street, and the alt community, the crypto people, the hedge fund people. If you can knit that together, you've got a huge potential community, and that's proved to be very, very difficult.
I think they've hit upon a formula that I think works. It combines content, very substantial content, but it's not the primary focus. It's on community and interacting with each other, along with a pleasant outdoor environment and a lot of great music, which is what a lot of other financial conferences were missing, that sense of community. You and I know these financial conferences are dying. Well, this one's not.
## Music and the NYSE Floor Community
**Dave:** You talk in your book about the community of the floor, right, about growing up effectively on the New York Stock Exchange floor, and a lot of your great stories there are about music. Right, you talk about Aretha Franklin or Jimmy Page, right, coming out to ring the bell. What is this connection between music and bringing communities together and finance? Because it does seem like a thread through your whole life.
**Bob:** Because what you do is you find people who are really interested in music because you get to know people. On the floor, you're there. When I got there in '97, there were 4,000 guys on the floor. A lot of them were rock guys like me. A few of them were deadheads. Some of them were Frankie Valli fans. You find out what motivates people, and you start talking about that, just like you might talk about the Giants game, for example.
So there's your two games here. You got sports and music, and the world's kind of divided. Some are in the both, but some are just in sports, and some are into music.
The other great thing is being on the floor is, I always say, what would you give to meet all of your heroes? Every rock star, every queen and king that you ever wanted to meet. 15,000 bell ringings in 30 years, you meet everybody. And you do meet Aretha Franklin, and you do meet Barry Manilow, and you do meet offhand Jimmy Page, for example, that would come. And it creates this sense of belonging on the floor.
### The Jimmy Page Story
I remember when Jimmy Page came, he was the guitarist for Led Zeppelin. We were so excited that Warner Brothers was setting up their new music division. And Jimmy Page came and rang the opening bell. And instead of pushing the bell, the opening bell, he plugged his guitar in and played the intro to "Whole Lotta Love."
So there's like 200 guys with worn Led Zeppelin copies. They want Jimmy Page to sign. They're holding up Zoso in the air. And Led Zeppelin II, screaming their heads off. He's going da-na-na-na-na-na-na. You can still see this. Go to Google, New York Stock Exchange, Jimmy Page. And everybody's screaming their heads off to see.
**Dave:** Which you would not associate with the opening of the world's largest stock exchange.
**Bob:** Probably is the only time I can remember that a rock anthem opened the bell. And the fellow who was there with him, Edgar Bronfman, was running the Warner Music. Sort of like, actually it was the guy who rang the bell, 'cause Jimmy's playing "Whole Lotta Love."
**Dave:** Too busy.
**Bob:** Yeah, a little too busy. So the great thing is you just get to meet a lot of wonderful people who are in the music industry.
## The Lost Wall Street Community
**Dave:** But that community is largely gone, right? I mean, the 4,000 people on the floor, it disappeared. And the Wall Street community, I mean, we talked about this before in the '90s, if you were down on Wall Street and it was 4:45, you were across the street. And that was a real, genuine community. I met a lot of my mentors that way. You've met a lot of your mentors that way. How do we build that other than conferences like this? Because those places are gone.
**Bob:** Well, you can do this online to a certain extent. But I'm a big believer in real conferences these days, and I'll tell you why. We don't know what's real and not online anymore. There's so much AI fakery. Here, there is a sense of authenticity. Unless you've got a really good robot, you're definitely Dave Nadig.
**Dave:** I'm definitely here.
## Authenticity in the Digital Age
**Bob:** Yeah, you're definitely here. And that's very reassuring, I think. I mean, look, look at your zine. Dave has a zine, by the way. Here it is, okay? Here's a free plug for Dave's zine.
And for those of you who don't know, a zine is a hand-produced item around usually a particular topic. When I was growing up in the 1960s, I collected comic books and we had zines. These were magazines that look like this, that had copies of comic books that were for sale, and would comment on certain issues of comics. It was fandom, essentially, is what it was. It was very early fandom.
These are making the comebacks as objects of authenticity, to a certain extent. Like, Dave had to actually, he scribbles in here, he puts his own little thoughts in there, silly little pictures in there, and it's kind of charming and genuinely authentic.
I think people want this kind of connection these days in a world of AI fakery, so I've become much more optimistic about the live conference than I have been in a long time.
## The Future Proof Conference Model
The question is, can you motivate people to come? And I think Future Proof has an excellent formula to figure out that mismatch between the sell-side and the buy-side. Let's face it, somebody's gotta pay for all this, usually the sell-side does. They've gone to the buy-side, the RIAs, the young community, and said, come to this, we'll waive fees, we'll even help you come here, and in return, why don't you meet with some of the sponsors?
**Dave:** And also, here's Bush playing a concert for you.
**Bob:** Tuesday night, we have Blues Traveler and Bush. So when you and I used to do conferences years ago, we'd knock ourselves out trying to figure out, who do we get to have the panels? A big thing was the panels. And it turned out what really mattered was people wanted to go for community.
So yes, it mattered to have some panels to go to, but when you have an outdoor venue, when you have great food, when you have all sorts of people standing around who are your peers, your RIA peers, discussing what works and what doesn't work, how do you grow your AUM, how do you help get back-office help, that is more valuable than the actual programs that we used to knock ourselves out, then layer on the music and the social interaction.
Well, what do we have, 5,000 people here? Half of them are RIAs. Those of you who don't know, usually the buy-side gets to be very, very small in these conferences, 'cause the vendors come in and overwhelm the buy-side. That's not happening here. That's a mark of success. That's a very simple way to judge success.
## Trust in the ETF Industry
**Dave:** I think a big part of it's got to be trust, too, right? I mean, you talk about AI fakery, right? What you trust has become pretty tricky, and I would say in the ETF industry, in my lane, it's become really tough. We've had so many new products launch, $800 billion this year already, going into all sorts of crazy products. This trust issue is, I think, critical. What do you think? Where are we in the ETF development cycle? You and I both started roughly when ETFs got going in the first place, back in the early '90s.
**Bob:** So, I am still very bullish. I think that we've got a long ways to go. Originally, we saw, of course, index funds dramatically expand, and I was a big proponent of that, and still am, in the first 15 years.
I was a big proponent of the gold ETF when it started in 2004, 'cause suddenly it was safe to own gold. We had these old men hiding gold in the basement that kept losing the safe passes, and all of a sudden, you could own gold in a vault in London. No matter, let's forget about the people who think that there is no gold in a vault in London, let's not ignore those people, but you could do it safely. And I said, if you want to own gold, I'm not going to debate whether it's worth it for you to own gold. If you want to, this is a safer way.
Then we had bonds, and after that, we had the dramatic expansion in the 2010s of the ETF business, because people started trusting this as a low-cost way to stay invested.
## Concerns About New ETF Products
Now, there are products out there that I'm not in love with. You and I have talked about this. I was never a big fan of leverage and inverse ETFs. I was even less a fan of single-stock leverage and ETFs. I was even less a fan of some of these option-based products that have been out recently. I think that this encourages what I call meme-like behavior.
And it's hard for people to understand why people take these kinds of risks. Does the world really need zero-date expiration option, ETF-type products, where you're going to wake up in the morning, and you're 25, and you say, "Oh, I think the S&P's going to be up today. I'm going to make a bet on—"
**Dave:** It's gambling, it's gambling.
**Bob:** We know what happens. The people who make the money are the bookies. In this case, the market makers. They are the people who make the money. And you try to say this to people, and they go to you, "You know, Bob, why don't you get with the program? I want to know how to get rich quick." And when you're in an up market, that's all people want to hear. Nobody wants to hear, "How can I show you how not to lose money?"
## The Bridge from Gambling to Investing
**Dave:** But do you think some of these products can act as a bridge? Because I was just talking to Caleb Silver, a friend of ours from Investopedia. We're talking about the retail investor, and how a lot of the retail market is now folks who started sort of pandemic gambling, and now have learned how to actually invest. Not everybody, but do you think there's some role for these to live side by side?
**Bob:** Well, yes. Here's what I have a problem with. I have, aside from the meme-like behavior, I have a general problem with the creeping expansion of gambling into the sports business, and into the finance business. And they are aspects of the same thing, and they've grown up at the same time.
It is shocking to watch some sports these days, and to see the announcers comment on the odds. I mean, that's kind of shocking. I'm one of these dumb old guys who loves the purity of sports, and I can already see this creeping sense that it's rigged. That there are people out there, "Oh, this guy's just missed three throws in a row. The guy's a 90% shooter." I heard that comment the other day. He didn't say, "This guy's throwing the game." He didn't say that. But there was a clear, like, implication there. That's all you've got to have happen. You're going to have multiple times. And so the purity of the sport gets tarnished.
**Dave:** Well, I think we're only days away from when sitting home watching a football game is going to be just like sitting at Caesars watching a football game with all the real-time props up at the top and the whole nine yards.
## Portfolio Management and Bitcoin
**Bob:** So how do you address this? Like I said, it's hard to tell people, let me show you how not to lose money. Let me show you standard things that you need to, diversification concepts. And so everybody rushes into Bitcoin, and the question is very simple. People ask me, "Should I own Bitcoin?" I say, "You have to answer the question, what does adding this asset class do to your portfolio? Tell me what you have."
Well, I own some stocks. I own some bonds in a 401(k). I own my house. I have a coin collection. And I'm thinking of adding Bitcoin. Well, okay, so this is standard portfolio management. What does it do for you? Do you think adding Bitcoin is going to improve your returns?
And invariably they say, "Well, I hope so. Yeah, I want to get rich quick." Yeah, okay, so you think it's going to improve your return? Is it going to reduce the volatility of your portfolio? Do you want it to do that? Well, I don't know. Is it a diversifier adequately?
And so people get bored with that. Look, you're getting bored. I'm getting bored with you talking about it because \[laughs\] There you go. Because. See, Dave doesn't want to hear it. Because they're both true. That's the problem with a lot of these newer ETFs.
## The Bitcoin Paradox
But Bitcoin's a great example. I agree. For the average person saying, "I want some Bitcoin," and then goes, puts 40 or 50% of their portfolio in it, that's kind of Looney Tunes. But our friend Matt Hogan, Bitwise, has pointed out over and over again, two, three, 5% in a long-term portfolio context would have done you very well as a counter-correlated asset. But both of those things are true at the same time. It's both a get-rich-quick gimmick and also a portfolio diversifier.
**Dave:** How do folks like us, who are in the position of helping folks understand what to invest in, how do we navigate the fact that both things are true?
**Bob:** Well, this is part of what I call the great con. So the great con was, originally, six, seven years ago, Bob, everybody should have 1% in Bitcoin. Because, think of it this way, if it goes to zero, you only lost 1%. But if it goes to 2%, now you have 2%. This is what I call the pretzel logic of investing.
And all of that is true, but doesn't answer the fundamental question of what do you want to do. If you want it as an asset diversifier, and you think it's not going to change that much, the base of your portfolio, 1% or 2% is fine. If you'll notice, the industry's not at 1% or 2% anymore. Not even at 5%. Rick Edelman is at 40%.
**Dave:** Well, okay, but that's the outside edge of folks giving advice to advisors, and there's folks saying 0%.
**Bob:** My point is, you see what happens, we get you in at 1%.
**Dave:** No, I understand, I understand.
## What's Exciting: Active Management Returns
**Dave:** Well, what are you, let's move on, let's wrap this up with something positive. We're walking around this place, it's huge. There's everybody hawking something. What are you excited about?
**Bob:** I'm excited about certain aspects of active management. For example, old school stock picking, okay? Look, Dan Ives, his new ETF, is basically 30 stocks around his investment philosophy. It's tied to an index, but it really is active management in the sense that he's the one that's really set up the whole system. So here's a guy, concentrated bet on essentially 30 stocks.
The same, I think with Tom Lee. Look at Tom, what has he got? Two billion dollars.
**Dave:** And that granny shots ETF.
**Bob:** 2.4 and the two granny shots ETF. Again, a handful of stocks, it's not 400 stocks. A bit complicated, but there's a long component, a short term component to the whole thing. It's not strictly tech stocks. He owns Goldman in it, JP Morgan. He'll explain why he owns that. He's done very well.
Now, you do not get two billion dollars in inflows in a fairly short period of time, just because you're a stock picker. There's something else going on there.
## The Power of Communication and Trust
**Dave:** Well, there's two things, aren't there? One, you actually have to be halfway good, right? You have to actually produce a quality product. But also, the thing I love about Tom Lee is he talks his book. And I mean that in a very positive way, meaning he's constantly explaining how he views the market, how he views the theses they've set up in that fund, how he views the individual stocks they're in. It wasn't that long ago, nobody would talk about the things they were investing in.
**Bob:** You're touching on my point here, which is Tom and Dan are great communicators. Number one, their comments to their investors, their newsletters are outstanding. As a journalist for 35 years, I think they're among the best. My wife looks at that, and she says, "I understand what Dan's saying here." I can't show her standard Wall Street sell-side research. It's too gobbledygook-y.
**Dave:** Totally agree.
**Bob:** They have a really clear message, and they communicate it well. Plus, let's face it, this is TV and social media stuff. They speak clearly. People have a sense that they can trust what they're saying because they understand.
**Dave:** Trust, right. It's authenticity.
**Bob:** My point is, there were a lot of people who've launched similar funds. They don't have $2 billion in assets under management. They have a little extra special sauce associated with the message.
**Dave:** I think it's trust. I think it's trust. I think that's the secret to us.
## Closing
**Dave:** All right, Bob.
**Bob:** Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure.
**Dave:** Always a pleasure. Thanks so much. One of my most trusted voices in the market. Thanks for everything.
**Bob:** Likewise. Pleasure to be here.
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